STARTING A GLOBAL ALCOHOL BRAND WITH EFFIE PANAGOPOULOS | E027 PODCAST

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ABOUT THE GUEST

Effie Panagopoulos sits down with George Stroumboulis in Newport Beach, California on the Invigorate Your Business Podcast to talk about all things Liquor, Mastiha Spirits, Launching an Alcohol Brand called Kleos and Scaling it Globally.

Effie Panagopoulos, a Boston native and Boston College alum with a degree in French/Romance Languages, defied expectations by becoming the first Greek woman to found a liquor brand. Her unconventional journey in the spirits industry includes over 15 years of marketing and selling well-known brands like Chambord, Bacardi, Grey Goose, Bombay Sapphire, Metaxa, and Disaronno. Effie's pivotal role as the National Brand Ambassador for METAXA marked a turning point, bringing her back to Greece and rekindling her connection with her heritage.

In 2008, an "eureka moment" at the renowned Mykonos beach bar Nammos sparked Effie's mission to introduce the Greek spirit experience to the US. This passion led to the creation of KLEOS, Greece’s first luxury spirit brand, with aspirations to become the next Global Greek spirit brand. Beyond her entrepreneurial pursuits, Effie, embodying Spartan values, is a fitness enthusiast, certified personal trainer, and natural bodybuilder. Catch her deadlifting cases of KLEOS in the summertime on Greek islands, seamlessly blending business, fitness, and even stand-up comedy into her vibrant and dynamic lifestyle. Opa!

Kleos’ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drinkkleos/?hl=it
Kleos’ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drinkkleos/
Kleos’ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kleos-mastiha-spirit/about/
Effie’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/greekspiritmuse/
Effie’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/effiepanagopoulos/

“I was in Mykonos in 2008 at the beach bar Nammos,... everyone around me was doing shots of mastiha... I tasted it and that was kind of my Eureka moment. I had a number of thoughts in my head all at the same time. ”
— Effie Panagopoulos

MEDIA RELATED TO THE EPISODE

Effie Panagopoulos sits down with George Stroumboulis in Newport Beach, California on the Invigorate Your Business Podcast to talk about all things Liquor, Mastiha Spirits, Launching an Alcohol Brand called Kleos and Scaling it Globally.

Effie Panagopoulos sits down with George Stroumboulis to talk about her Mastiha Spirit, Kleos.

Effie Panagopoulos sits down with George Stroumboulis in Newport Beach, California on the Invigorate Your Business Podcast to talk about all things Liquor, Mastiha Spirits, Launching an Alcohol Brand called Kleos and Scaling it Globally.

Effie Panagopoulos sits down with George Stroumboulis in Newport Beach, California on the Invigorate Your Business Podcast to talk about all things Liquor, Mastiha Spirits, Launching an Alcohol Brand called Kleos and Scaling it Globally.

Effie Panagopoulos sits down with George Stroumboulis in Newport Beach, California on the Invigorate Your Business Podcast to talk about all things Liquor, Mastiha Spirits, Launching an Alcohol Brand called Kleos and Scaling it Globally.

ABOUT THE “INVIGORATE YOUR BUSINESS” PODCAST

The Invigorate Your Business with George Stroumboulis podcast features casual conversations and personal interviews with business leaders in their respective fields of expertise. Crossing several industry types and personal backgrounds, George sits down with inspiring people to discuss their business, how they got into that business, their path to the top of their game and the trials and tribulations experienced along the way. We want you to get inspired, motivated, and then apply any advice to your personal and professional lives. If there is at least one piece of advice that resonates with you after listening, then this podcast is a success. New episodes weekly. Stream our show on Spotify, YouTube, Apple, Amazon and all other platforms.

ABOUT GEORGE STROUMBOULIS

George Stroumboulis is an entrepreneur to the core, having launched several ventures across multiple industries and international markets. He has held senior-level positions at progressive companies and government institutions, both domestically and internationally, building an extensive portfolio of business know-how over the years and driving profit-generating results. George’s ability to drive real change has landed him in several media outlets, including the front page of the Wall Street Journal. George was born in Toronto, Canada to his Greek immigrant parents. Family first. Flying over 300,000 miles a year around the world puts into perspective how important family is to George’s mental and emotional development. With all this travel to global destinations, the longest he stays even in the most far-out destination is 3 days or less - a personal rule he lives by to make sure he is present and involved in family life with his wife and three daughters. To read about George’s global travels, stay connected with his blog section.

FULL SHOW TRANSCRIPT

George Stroumboulis - Host: 00:00

Welcome to another episode of invigorate your business with George Stroumboulis. Today, I sit down with Effie Panagopoulos. She is the first Greek woman to have ever started an alcohol beverage brand in the world. Pretty spectacular, her brand is called Kleos and she is doing incredible things. She's an industry veteran in this space and we're going to sit down and talk about her entire business what it's like, from starting the company, running it, raising capital, being a female entrepreneur in this arena and we're going to cover everything. So enjoy this episode starting now. My name is George Stroumboulis and I'm extremely passionate about traveling the world, meeting new people and learning about new businesses. Join me as I sit down with other entrepreneurs to learn about their journeys. This episode of invigorate your business starts now, so we'll get started right now. I'm excited to have Effie Panagopoulos here. Panagopoulos Panagopoulos she's a killer from East Coast, right from Boston, born and raised. This is kind of a cool title the first Greek woman in history to start an alcohol brand, a spirit brand.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:24

So I want to preface this, just so we don't have any Greeks that are going to be like no. So in terms of the research, there may have been some woman in a chorio making tzipouro or tzikoudia or something in the past, but in terms of a brand that is exported outside of Greece and not part of a family, meaning I'm the first independent female, meaning this isn't my family's company, I've done this all on my own. So the first self-started Greek woman-owned spirit brand, let's go, come on, let's go.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 02:04

That's huge. We're going to get into this. Yeah, and the grandmothers in the village that were making alcohol, they were shitty marketers, so that's on them. They couldn't get it out, so we're going to get into this. You have tremendous history in the spirit space, the alcohol space, big brands, Bacardi and so on. So you're corporate. You decided at some point you know what I can bring something extraordinarily tasty and great to the market and start your own brand. We're going to get into that. Klaus also pronounced Klios. Right, you started that. It's based with Mastika. We're going to talk about that. But I would love for you to just kind of introduce yourself. Where are you from? What's your background?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 02:45

So Effie Panagopoulos, Boston. Born and raised. My parents were from Tripoli and Megalopoli, dad is past Grandparents Kalamata and Sparti, so all Peloponnese, a lot of Chiotes. You know, asking if I'm from Xios and I always say I think my soul lived there in a past life because I'm so obsessed with Mastiha. But I'm not from Chios and I've actually lived all over in the US. So I traveled a lot with work, kind of chasing the career. I did Vegas, San Diego, San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Miami, back to Boston, back to New York, back to Miami, and now California, new California residents.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 03:22

So Well, welcome. We'll get into how you like it here and everything. How did you go from working for a global brand like Bacardi and then having the idea like was there an overlap there while you were at Bacardi, to have this idea so?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 03:38

no, I was at Bacardi back in 04 to 06. It was actually my first market manager role and I was actually living in San Francisco at the time. So, okay yeah, I got recruited by Remy Quantro, which is the French company that owns Metaxa, so I was the first and only ever, national brand ambassador for Metaxa to the United States.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 04:00

To this day, no Yep.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 04:01

Yep, that job brought me back to Greece and I was there for a global brand conference and I stayed for vacation after the conference and I was in Mykonos it was summer of 2008 at the beach bar Nammos, which everyone knows. At the time it was way, way cooler and a little more underground and there was still Greeks there, but everyone around me was doing shots of mastiha and I was with a music producer friend of mine and he literally was like you need to try this, and so I tasted it and that was kind of my Eureka moment. I had a number of thoughts in my head all at the same time. Which A was? I know this flavor profile because we grow up having mastihas, that submarine, that spoon dessert and so I knew the flavor profile and smell and taste are very evocative when it comes to waking up memories. Right, Absolutely. So it really brought me back to being in the village with my yiayia in the summertime having that spoon dessert and I'm like fuck, they make alcohol from this. And, frankly, at the time I didn't even really know what mastiha was, that it was a tree sap. I just thought it was like a Greek sweet Right.

05:17

And so, 2007,. Saint Germain had launched, which was a brand that a friend of mine Rest in Peace, Rob Cooper started, and it was a French elderflower liqueur and it lit up like wildfire in New York because it was a totally unique flavor profile that opened up a whole new world of cocktail opportunities. So I had, like I said, these thoughts at the same time of, like I know this flavor, they make alcohol from this. Ooh, this could be the next Saint Germain, right? Because in tasting it, I'm like this is a flavor that would definitely lend itself to cocktail applications and a lot of versatility, right, and mixability. And so yeah, and I mean again at the environment that I was in, which was Namos, which is, like you know, bottles and party and the whole thing, and it's all Americans, I'm telling you, that were doing the shots, it wasn't, it wasn't Greeks.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 06:14

Okay.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 06:15

And so that was really where I was like okay, because here I was working on metaxa and Ursus by metaxa, which are two very challenging flavor profiles for a global consumer Right, and I taste this thing that was like so approachable and really delicious. Again, for that let's call it American consumer because, let's face it, when it comes to many products across consumer packaged goods, if you can crack the American market you can become a global brand right.

06:50

So that was really like that, that crucial moment. And my friend it was a music producer, it was friends with the owner of Skinos and was like let me introduce you to this guy that has this brand, and so that was kind of the beginning of that, that whole journey. So I helped Skinos kind of enter the US market. I helped him find a distributor and an importer. Didn't work out financially for us to work together and also during the eight month period that I was working with him, there were some hiccups in terms of the product itself and, like I did a deep dive on the category in terms of like, who are the players? What are the brands of mastiha that are selling in Greece that are relevant? Who's exporting?

07:37

And what I saw really quickly is that there were so many weaknesses in the category, packaging being one of them, liquid being another, marketing being another right. So even with Skeenos, which is a great brand, it's delicious there were problems, like I, and I got to say this lovingly right, but I put him into a big event called the Manhattan cocktail classic and I had some real heavy hitters that were doing the cocktails for the event and we were doing a specific cocktail that we had to batch out. So batching is like when you're making drinks for 500 people right.

08:19

So they called me up and like one of the guys is now global for Jägermeister and he was like, oh F, this juice is messed up. Like what do you mean? And he's like yeah, we just made the same drink, same recipe, three different bottles, and it's totally different.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 08:35

And they have a palette that they would know Correct.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 08:37

Correct, correct. Now again, I'm not saying that a layman would notice this. However, my whole thing with bringing this type of product to the US market and I call it trickle down marketing, right, we know trickle down economics meaning you penetrate the market via influencers, whether it's chefs, you know high level mixologists who are going to really adapt something like this. That's so esoteric and so unique, which was exactly who I did my initial focus groups with, right. So in my mind immediately I was kind of like oh, there's no way I could hang my hat on a product that's got like consistency issues, that's like what a basic thing that would be like you making a light that it works sometimes and then it doesn't work.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 09:23

You know what?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 09:24

it means so. And again, this isn't again really to like knock the product. It's just the fact that I am such a perfectionist and I believe when you like me, I don't come from money. I say always two things your currency is your word and your relationships 100% and if you break your word or mess up your relationships, for me I would have nothing, and so there is no way that I could work on a product that may compromise my relationships, you know what I'm saying?

George Stroumboulis - Host: 09:57

Were they listening to you?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 09:58

with this feedback, a little bit, but it was like the typical Greek response where it's like oh, you know, it's an agricultural product that changes season to season and I'm just kind of like, all right, well, there's got to be a way to fix that.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 10:12

Yes.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 10:12

Right, and so I, when our relationship kind of ended, I kind of was like I got to see. You know, my whole thing was like I want to create the brand, to be the global brand, to not only fix the problems that exist in the category but to be the example of what a true luxury spirit from Greece looks like, tastes like.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 10:38

Absolutely.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 10:39

All of it.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 10:40

And having that experience with major global brands right, like you are coming in with. Hey, we know how this works globally for all these different brands. Trying to apply it to a Greek brand at the time just wasn't a fit Right.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 10:54

And look, I mean, is over a million cases worldwide. That is not something.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 10:59

Sorry when you say a million, that's a year. Just so our terminology.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 11:02

Okay, yes, so is that what you?

George Stroumboulis - Host: 11:03

quote. So when someone talks about.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 11:06

That's big brand status. Gotcha you crack. I mean that's Yeager Meister, just to make it relevant, used to sell about 3 million in the US. Shy of seven 10 years ago just in the US alone. So a million cases worldwide. That's a brand someone wants to acquire. Okay, in the United States, if you can crack for a startup brand, you can crack 20,000 cases annually. You're a target for acquisition In the recent M&A environment in the US if you can crack 5,000 cases you could be a target for acquisition. Yeah.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 11:48

So where was skinny girl? Remember skinny girl?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 11:50

Margarita I mean, look, she had the power of Bravo, which you know. Later on in my career I was the marketing manager for DeSerrano, so I manage the US budget was about a $7 million budget. Frankly, it's not a lot of money in the grand schema things when you're talking about the kind of money that liquor brands spend.

12:13

But it was a decent amount 350,000 case brand in the United States with Disaronno. So we did a lot of TV. The TV ads were a little corny. I mean part of my role when I was there was changing the creative on the TV ads.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 12:26

Why do I feel like I remember it too, Disaronno, because they were like Disaronno on the box. Yes, yes, yes, I do remember that.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 12:33

So, but we have eat up on Bravo one story short. That network is phenomenal why? Because women are watching this programming, so it helps just accelerate that. Totally so. You're talking about very much right place, right time with Bethany Frankel, and she had a partner that was an industry expert. So that needs to be known Absolutely.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 13:02

So we have a beautiful bottle here and I want to get into the detail. So the average listener to this podcast doesn't even know when we're talking about Mastiha. Right, what is it? Let's bring it back Like this is not a vodka, it's not a gin, it's its own category. So in your 2008 soberish Eureka moment at that time did you say I want to start this brand, or I just like this so much, I want to get behind this type of product.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 13:29

Well, you know, at the time again we're talking, I was like in my late 20s, early 30s, I don't know, it's all blur at this point.

13:40

But no, I mean, you know, just like I said, I got introduced to the owner of Skinos so I just thought, oh, let me be this person's like number two, you know. But then this person wasn't willing to give me equity, wasn't willing to pay me what I was worth, and I mean, that's a whole nother conversation about. You know, just women in business and the fact that we get paid less than men and this whole thing. Right, that's a whole nother conversation.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 14:06

But by the way, don't lose your train of thought. You're my first female guest on the podcast 27 episodes. That's awesome we need more, and it's not by, but I'm excited for that, so thank you. So back to your question, which was Did you always think the right opportunity, I'm going to start my own brand, or was it just organic?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 14:26

No, no, it happened because you know, like I said, that relationship fizzled and I kind of was at this stage when that happened. I was actually very depressed. You know, I was really depressed because I felt a little taken advantage of. I kind of felt like you know what I'm tired of building brands for other people and not being, you know, paid my worth. And the other reality is is I was in New York at the time. I was living in New York, so this was like 2008,. Right around the economic bust.

14:59

All right and I had a lot of buddies. I had two of my like two older guy friends of mine that started LeBlan cachaça, which ended up selling to Bacardi. I had another buddy of mine, steven, who started a brand called Illegal Mescal God. There was another guy I knew that it started at LeBlan cachaça brand. So we're talking there was a lot of this startup activity, right, and it was people that I knew and you know, it kind of was just like this dude could do it. I can, you know what I mean Really.

15:29

And yeah, and that was really kind of kind of my thought process. So it really happened. It really happened organically and I could run circles around MBAs because I learned this all school of hard knocks. You know, I got my ass handed to me when I first started trying to raise capital because all I had was a vial of liquid and a PowerPoint. That was a business plan with like a budget. It wasn't like a proper cash flow exercise or anything like this.

16:02

That said, I had guy friends that were raising capital, that I saw their decks, there was holes in them and again, like I don't want to make this like a feminist hour here, but objectively there were males that were able to raise capital with weaker propositions, holes in their propositions and I couldn't raise a dollar.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 16:28

And you have the experience, like you started, from bartending, from going to the venues, from you have that grassroots Right.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 16:35

I mean we're talking. At that point I had done everything other than finance and logistics right. So experience with execution and I will also say that along in that startup environment, what you typically saw was marketing folks in the liquor industry that were starting brands, or finance dudes Gotcha Right. So the finance dudes saw all the exits and want to get a piece of the pie.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 16:59

Yes.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 17:00

And then the marketing folks are kind of like yeah, we know how to do this right, but the big difference is is when you've actually sold and you know how difficult it is to sell one bottle, never mind 20,000 cases. There's a big difference to that and, like, I consulted for a lot of these marketing folks, right, where guess what? You raised some capital to get a brand off the ground. You now sit in an office doing administrative work and you have to hire salespeople. That's eating up cash flow Because you're not, as a founder, usable to drive volume. So there's a big difference between, like, creating strategy and actually being able to execute.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 17:45

Big difference Right.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 17:47

So and I'm not trying to be cocky here, but a big strength for me I have been running this business as a one woman band for five years now.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 17:57

But you say one like, literally aside from the producers aside from some people that do tastings for me in store.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 18:06

I've been running this as a one man band and I've opened up 16 states and six countries Come on. Okay, so you know over how many years has this been five. It's been five years now. I've launched March of 2018 in Massachusetts, so I am my salesperson, my marketer, my PR agent, all of this thing. I'm not saying that that's an efficient way to do it.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 18:30

I've had to do that You've had to do that Okay.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 18:32

I'm now finally at a point where I'm ready to hire salespeople, which is super exciting because it's exhausting, yes, you know but you're on every weekend like you're out at tastings.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 18:45

You are the face of the brand. You're passionate about it.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 18:49

I've been doing it all I've been doing it all.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 18:51

You met someone this weekend. They call you today and you're already like just talk to, not to veer off. You know this is a good conversation when we have 18 conversations going but still, to this day, like it's establishing itself this brand because you're driving it, but you still go to tastings, you're still sponsoring events, you still want to be there and make sure. This is the first time you're trying a mastica of Clio's. Give me that feedback. What is it Like? That's intense.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 19:21

It is. But the thing is is, if I didn't truly believe in what I was doing, I wouldn't be like I'm not interested in sitting at home and you know, being a puppet master. Okay, like, yes, I need. We're entering a phase where I'm going to start to be able to delegate. We'll raise a series A in a year. Okay, we're all have 20 people on the ground. But as a founder, when you can go do an in-store tasting and you got people that meet, like you're never meeting a founder at Total Wine. You know how many customers I have that still buy the product because they met me in store.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 19:59

It makes a difference.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 20:00

It makes a huge difference and that also creates that organic word of mouth and it also creates that you know what. I met this girl. She launched this off her mother's couch in Boston. I want to support that and I'm going to tell my friends. You know what I mean. So I don't I don't ever want to be the Wizard of Oz, locked, locked away in in the ivory tower. Staying connected to your customer is the way that you're going to always kind of know what the market wants and then be able to scale and grow the brand accordingly. Like I'm looking at doing some flavors potentially. You know I've been getting requests since the beginning for a smaller bottle, for the 200 ml size, you know. So I'm just conscious that, like I want to listen to the market and be able to be responsive. You know Well, and that's put you in a position where you're succeeding.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 20:57

So today, in prep for you coming here, I ran out. First of all I Googled. I'm like, okay, klaus, I've never tried it right and I haven't had Mastiha in over five years and it was always in my mind. By the way, ipovrigio, I knew it growing up as vanilla Right, I didn't know that was Mastiha up until now. You just reminded me I used to eat that shit. Like I used to love that. Yeah, Okay, so I do like Mastiha.

21:23

I call highlight sellers here in Newport Beach Hi, do you have Klaus there? Let me check. Yeah, we do. That's so great. They go. Wait before you did that. He goes. Is that that Greek brand? He said that I go. Yes, he goes. It's got like this ornate, pretty bottle. The guy on the phone yeah, that's the one goes. Yeah, you want me to put one to the side for you? I'm like, yep, I'll be there in the hour. So it was just cool that you're still pushing for the brand recognition. But this guy was like is that the Greek brand? And then, is it the pretty bottle? Yeah, like that's pretty cool.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 21:55

I love that Right.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 21:56

It was just when I went in there was a woman that was checking me out at, not checking me out, checking me out at the station, and she goes.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 22:04

I go, hey yeah, she was checking you out. She saw the bottle. I didn't have the bottle yet, so she was just looking at me.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 22:09

I go do you sell a lot of this? She goes I see a lot of bottles come through here, a lot. I go. Have you tried? I'm just curious now, right?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 22:16

Yeah.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 22:16

She goes. I've never tried it, but everyone that comes in here does that. And then my last question was male or female? Who do you see most? Yeah, right, and she goes, mostly women. Yeah, like this was her feedback 100%.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 22:27

Well, it's on the money. It's on we skew about 60, 40 female, male, okay.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 22:32

Yeah, so as we get into Mastija, can we get into this? Yeah, let's go, let's crack it open, let's crack it open, all right, so you do the honors of cracking it open All right, and this is another thing that's really nice and I kind of like took this from my DeSerano days.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 22:46

So the DeSerano cap, if you know it, kind of like spins, and so there's a similar effect with the Clio's cap.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 22:55

So is this all your, from everything, the brand, the logo, see that.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 22:59

Pretty. So it's like little working flare. And then if you get one of these bottles and you place it on a bar outside and the sun's hitting it, it actually creates like a rainbow prism effect on your bar top Did you design everything?

23:14

So I worked with a designer. He actually named Sean and he actually worked on a lot of the LeBlanc Cachasa stuff. But I had worked with another very high end designer who I won't name. Yeah, we'll do a little squeeze of lemon, that's great. Okay, I worked with a high end designer who had done a lot of perfume bottles.

23:42

Okay, so what I want you to do is this I want you to try it by itself first, then squeeze the lemon. Okay, and try it, sidi yamas Cheers Hopa. That's delicious, and then try it with the lemon.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 24:11

Wow, that's smooth.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 24:14

And then you can pop some Pellegrino on top, give it a little bubbles.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 24:19

While we're drinking this. That goes down way too easy. Yeah, wow, totally. That's really good, totally. What's your most popular cocktail Like? What's one that you're seeing in Miami? So?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 24:31

right on the bottle is the Cleopatra. Okay, so that also goes back to why I named this Kleos. I wanted a name that could lend itself to cocktail names. Kleos is the root of Cleopatra. Cleopatra, female Greek dynamo, ties right in. So the Cleopatra is three ingredients Kleos, basil and lemon. And this drink was created by a guy named Michael Menegos, who's, frankly, the Dale de Graf of Greece. For people who don't know who Dale de Graf is, I mean this column King cocktail. He's an American that worked at the Rainbow Room in New York in the 80s and is kind of credited with the reviving of classic cocktail culture in America.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 25:21

And Rainbow Room for people that don't know is like the iconic bar in New York City right, right.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 25:27

So Michael Menegos was that person in Greece who, I'm going to say 90s, was working at a bar called Bar Guru, along with another gentleman, thanos Pugnados, who now owns Bar Barum, which is on the World's 50 Best Bar List. So these were guys that were doing cocktails when people were all drinking ursus in Greece, and for people who don't know what ursus is, it's like this slojin in a bottle very cheap alcohol that for some reason, greeks were doing shots of.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 26:01

That and Gordon Space like official spots Totally totally, totally so.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 26:05

I met Michael early in my entrepreneurial journey when I was working for Metaxa, and the guy is like Paulie Glott speaks French, Spanish, Italian. I mean, he's literally a gentleman and a scholar, an absolute class act. And yeah, he made that drink and it is so simple to make and so delicious. It's literally Cleo's Basil Lemon easy peasy, and that's it. So this serve. We just had muddle some lemon half ounce excuse me, muddle some basil half ounce of lemon juice shake it up like a mojito beautiful.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 26:41

Wow, this tastes so good and there's health benefits.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 26:46

So look, we can't make health claims for an alcohol product. Okay, Disglaim.

26:51

However, however, mastiha itself and this was one of the reasons that I fell in love with this thing is a superfood. You know, it's the ancient Greek superfood first prescribed for medicinal purposes by Hippocrates, who's the Greek father of medicine, first referenced in the first known pharmacopeia by the Greek father of pharmacology, the oscurides, who wrote a book called Demeteria Medica in Latin, which listed plants, botanicals, herbs, their healing properties, combinations of those things to cure ailments, and in that book was referenced both cannabis and mastiha. So long history of its use for medicinal purposes. Modern days. There's hundreds of published medical studies proving mustycha's action against H pylori, which, again, like we're talking about being in the market, you know we're doing doing store tastings and I'm like, oh, mastiha, you know, kills H pylori. It's the bacteria that causes Pepticulsors, gastrocancer, acid reflux. You know how many Americans I meet that have H pylori, have had H pylori, have Crohn's disease, ibs. I mean not sexy things right, but America has a gut health problem and mustycha is one of those things that, frankly, and a lot of people also don't know this, the Heos Mustycha Grower's Association is primarily concerned with selling mustycha for its medicinal purposes.

28:25

It's officially recognized as an herbal medicine in the European Union. There's two big pharma companies in the EU that buy 40 metric tons of mustycha annually and put it in pills for people who have GI problems. So you know it's a natural remedy for all things gut health related. Besides that, it's antibacterial, antimicrobial, anti-inflammatory and antioxidant. So it's used in skincare as well. Mustycha is used in surgical thread in the European Union because the body actually absorbs it and it helps with skin regeneration and wound healing. So because of that, it's used as an ingredient in anti-aging products.

29:07

So there's a couple of American brands Tata Harper, which you can get at Sephora super expensive organic skincare line from Vermont. Chanel puts mustycha in their blue serum cream, which is ingredients from all the blue zones. Estee Lauder is now using mustycha as well. So it is a fascinating product. So besides gut health skincare, it's also used in oral hygiene. Mustycha was the world's first chewing gum. It is the root of the word to chew in all the romance languages. So in French it's mustyche, in Spanish it's mustychad, in Italian it's mustychad.

29:47

So what another cool fun fact, and I mean now I sound like the dad from my big family wedding, but like it's legit.

29:54

You know, it's crazy how many things we have in Greece that have this level of depth in history. But I'm going to argue that. You know, I call this Greece's best kept secret because this discovery moment for me. So first it was discovering the liquid and the flavor, which is super delicious. Then it was researching the raw ingredient and I'm just like, oh my god, like, why is this not like Asai? Why doesn't everybody know about this? I'm going to make this happen. Like this stuff is a marketers dream. You couldn't make this up and have a better story.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 30:31

Absolutely. You know your passion for this is unreal. Like this isn't turn the camera on and I'm passionate, like You're insanely passionate about this, which is just exciting. This is delicious. Like, again, this moving forward is when you go to someone's house as a gift. This is perfect to give it to the American who is not connected to Greece. Like it's a great conversation starter, totally Right. Like the other one that's a vodka, like the Greek vodka, one I can't think of, the name doesn't matter has a nice bottle and it's a conversation starter, just, but it's not Greek. You can get vodka anywhere. This is a great conversation starter, yeah, you know, and you go somewhere. Like that's going to start going in my mix of hey when you're going to someone's house.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 31:15

Americans fall in love with it. They really fall in love with it, and that's really what keeps me going. You know, I. The idea for this came in 2008. I launched in 2018. I've still been doing this as a one-man band, ready to scale and hire people. I'm not saying that I haven't had low points. Every entrepreneur does.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 31:37

You'd be lying if you don't.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 31:38

But you know, the reaction I get from people is what keeps me going. I know this is something very special. I know and I knew from the beginning that I could make this the next global Greek spirit brand. I just needed the tools to execute, and the biggest tool is capital Capital absolutely so. That's incredible that way segue us into another conversation.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 32:00

No, but really quick, so let's zoom out a bit. The world's Greece. Greece has thousands of islands. There's only one island that produces the trees, that produce the sap, that is mastika. Can you just explain?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 32:15

that.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 32:15

So the island of Hios is the only island in Greece and the world that produces this.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 32:21

Is that correct?

George Stroumboulis - Host: 32:22

Yes, so why haven't people taken these trees and tried to go to? They have Even to other islands they have.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 32:29

They have Turks specifically. I mean, the history of Hios is so fascinating. And then the history of Hios in relation to the Ottoman Empire is even more fascinating because through 400 years of the Ottoman Empire the Hians were always protected, never raped, never killed, because the Sultan in Turkey, like mastika, was the prized possession. So really fascinating history. And, frankly, it was the fact that mastika exists today we actually owe to Genevies, italians.

33:08

Genevies, italians, came and settled Hios around the 11th, 12th century and they built walls around each of these 24, what they call mastika horya, the mastika producing villages, to protect them from pirates and from the Ottoman Turks. Really so that. And they also helped organize the systematic cultivation of mastika so that it could be commercialized throughout the Southeast Mediterranean Basin. And it was spread via the spread of Christianity, because it was considered to be one of the biblical resins, along with Frankincense and Meur. So you want to talk like why does mastika come only from this island and only from the southern part of the island? There's like the scientific story and then there's the folklore story. I'm actually more akin to believe the folklore story, frankly, which is a religious story, and it's a really beautiful story. That was told to me by a local Mestusa. So Mestá is one of the mastika horya.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 34:17

Okay.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 34:18

And it's the story of Saint Isidore, which is the, or Ayosicidros, who's the patron saint of Hios. And supposedly Ayosicidros was a Christian in non-Christian times and converted two working girls to Christianity, and for this he was punished by the local government. They took his body, dragged it around with a chariot, you know, across wood stones, beat him bloody and left him on the side of a road in a field of mastika trees to die. And the story goes that the trees cried in sympathy for the dying saint.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 34:58

No.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 34:58

And that the saint looked at the trees and said may your tears be a medicine for the world. And so that story, they say, is the reason that the southern part of Hios is blessed, was blessed by the saint, and that these, this particular resin, which they call the tears, so in Greek we call it thekri amastikhas.

35:21

So, it's the tears of the tree, because the way you cultivate these trees and I'll back it up again a little bit, so the specific tree is called the pistachios, lentiscus var, meaning variety here. So the Hios variety of this Mediterranean shrub. So the Mediterranean shrub grows throughout the Mediterranean. Okay, however, that particular variety only comes from these 24 villages, sincere, right. So you can talk science, you can talk terroir microclimate, you know mineral analysis of the soil. There was association, a lot of these questions. Sometimes they're vague because they're super protective, right, but you know and one of those things also is kind of systematic cultivation over time that the ancient Heans, you know, knew how to take care of these trees, cultivate these trees and continue the harvest. They also, historically, were picking the best trees to repropagate. Like you can take a branch, you cut the branch off, you stick that in the ground. That in five years is a new mustika tree.

36:27

So, it's not something that has a seed either by the way. Right, so you can talk all these scientific reasons, but I'm more convinced of the folklore.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 36:35

The folklore. Yeah Well, even this region. Can they produce enough for the world?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 36:40

Yeah, can Jalisco, mexico, produce enough agave for the world for tequila? I mean? People ask me this question all the time and so do investors. There's over 1500 brands of tequila. The growing region for agave in Jalisco is very similar in size to the growing region of mustika.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 36:57

Oh, wow, okay, and that's globally known, right, correct?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 36:59

Correct. So there's 1500 brands of tequila. Is there the agave shortage now? Yes, absolutely. Are tequila brands bastardizing their production methods? Yes, absolutely.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 37:09

Okay.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 37:10

However, with mustika it is a nascent category. That's why I call it again Greece's best kept secret. There are about 40 brands of mustika in Greece. 80% of them are artificial flavor and aroma.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 37:23

So what do you mean? They take the sap from the actual trees.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 37:26

They don't take the sap, 80% are artificial flavor and aroma, so it's literally 80% of what's called mustika in Greece is actually fake product. It's not PDO Gios mustika. So the only way you know if a product is PDO Gios mustika is it's going to have this stamp from the Gios mustika growers association.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 37:47

Okay.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 37:51

And I'll tell you what the stamp says a fendiki mustika, 100% authentic mustika, and there's this particular stamp that's from the Gios mustika growers association.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 38:01

Okay, let's focus here. So if I go and start making my own champagne and call it champagne, but it's made somewhere else, they're going to come after me.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 38:11

The TTB, which is the governing body for alcohol in the United States, does a lot of rigorous work on categories that are already old and accepted. So with tequila you've got the CRT, the Comisión Regulatorio de Tequila, which is the governing body for tequila in Mexico.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 38:36

Sounds like a cartel.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 38:37

Kind of Not exactly. But, like with tequila, all tequila is mezcal but not all mezcal is tequila. So tequila is a gavel that grows only in the Jalisco region of Mexico. Cognac is brandy that grows or that comes from grapes that grow only in the Cognac region of France. It's the Oni Blanc grape, which is a varietal that is throughout Europe, but only in Cognac is this specific grape for Cognac. So all these categories are very old, very established.

39:16

So, not only within their respective countries, but then with countries that are importing these products, do they go through kind of rigorous paperwork, certifications and whatnot? With Greece? We're not there yet. We're not there yet. In fact, I got into it with a guy who was in Washington state that was selling a product made in Washington state and calling it mustica and then an Uso as well. Right, come on, greek company, hats off. Love anyone that's promoting Greek products. That's great, we all win. Rising tides raise all ships. However, this is in disrespect to the laws that have been created by the state general chemical laboratory in Greece, which is the small governing body for Greek spirits. So there are laws that exist regarding Uso, cipuro and mustica. So if I were to make this in Gios let's be transparent. I don't make Gios in Gios. I buy from the growers association I made in Lesvos.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 40:28

So you ship from one island to another island, which is known for using. No, I'm buying mustica.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 40:31

I'm buying the raw ingredients from Gios and then we take that and we distill it on another island. So if I were making it in Gios, I would also have what's called a PGI, which is protected geographic indication. I only have the PDO because I'm buying PDO Gios mustica. So my dream actually is to be able to make it in Gios. Why am I not making it in Gios? Because I couldn't find a distillery there that, frankly, was up to snuff on the production methodology that I wanted to get the liquid that I want in this bottle.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 41:08

So what would change? That's great information. So, of the 80 or so brands, and I'm telling you.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 41:13

Nobody knows this information. Barely anybody knows this information.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 41:16

Do we cut this out of this episode? No, no, it should be shared. It should be shared. It should be shared.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 41:21

So I think people need to be better educated on Greek spirits and that Greek people themselves need to be more educated on these laws.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 41:29

So let me ask you if I'm going in Greece and there's 80 different brands of Gios and you're saying 60 or so, or I'm saying the first thing that you do is look for the stamp from the Gios Mustica Growers Association.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 41:39

Okay, the Gios Mustica Growers Association is a collaborative. It's about 3000 families that own trees, harvest them each year to collect this resin. And then there is a you know again self-governing entity that they then give the Mustica to. They get paid according to the weight of the Mustica, how clean the Mustica is. So this self-governing body regulates Mustica, also controls the price, wholesale for the global market, and then also vets anyone that wants to come in and buy.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 42:15

Oh really.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 42:17

So, yeah, I spent. You know, I say I just. I had my Eureka moment in 2008. I launched in 2018. I spent a lot of time meeting farmers, meeting the people running the Growers Association, you know, really trying to get in their good graces as well. Right, because not anyone can just call up the Growers Association and be like, oh yeah, I want to buy 40 tons of Mustica. It doesn't work that way. There is a limited supply annually. You have to be vetted. Production quantity is known.

42:47

I vetted my business plan out to a million cases worldwide, so I'll leave it at that. However, there is no security for anything that comes from an agricultural product, just like there hasn't been security for Tequila and big brands. We're talking big heritage. Global brands have had to change their production methods because of the shortage.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 43:11

Because of the shortage.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 43:12

So the Growers Association is very kind of protective and that's also why, like I call it, greece's best kept secret, because you know they're they want to grow, but they're also very protective of the product. You know, and it's, frankly, more Greeks that are doing Mustica products than like any foreigners. Okay, so this is also a very special thing because no big company has come in to like buy up all the Mustica trees. This is still literally 3,000 families.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 43:46

That's incredible.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 43:47

And the families own 50% of what's called Metaterra, which is the company that owns the Mustica shop. So the Mustica shop is the shop in the Athens airport in Hios. They got like five other locations.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 44:03

That's not a government shop.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 44:05

No, no, that is owned 50% by the Growers Association and 50% by this company called Metaterra, and that shop sells everything under the sun made with Mustica, from you know spirits brands to spoon desserts, chocolates, olive oils, tomato paste, you name it. You know cosmetic things. Like you name it, they sell it. No that's the other. Like really cool thing about Mustica is you're like oh my God, it's a chocolate, it's a liquor, it's a spoon dessert, you know, it's a tea, it's a cocoa, like you can use it in so many different things.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 44:46

Absolutely.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 44:47

It's so versatile.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 44:49

Does it make you nervous? Building a business and scaling it and having an end goal and knowing like can they pull access from people and say we're not supplying you anymore? I mean, that could happen in any region.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 44:59

So you know I don't want to like talk a big game here, but I have contracts with the Growers Association.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 45:05

So yeah, so you're covered.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 45:07

So this is as risky as starting a tequila brand right now, and look at every celebrity that's starting a tequila brand.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 45:14

So we'll leave it there. That's amazing.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 45:16

So if you could change or enhance it's actually much more de-risk, frankly, because this is a nascent category.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 45:23

Right, right, and it's growing. So when you're looking at this, do you have an end goal in sight as a business now? So the mustika we covered. As a business, you're building this, you're passionate. It tastes phenomenal. What is your end goal here?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 45:40

I mean the end goal is an exit. You know, I'd like to sell this to a strategic who can do the things that I cannot do, which is scale it to a global brand and you have enough in your toolkit of skills to get it to that place?

George Stroumboulis - Host: 45:56

Yes, and then you need it.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 45:58

At this current moment. No, but I'll be raising a series A that will get me to the finish line, Okay.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 46:05

And I've read your story. How did it start? So you're in Boston, you're trying to raise money. Where did you go? Friends and family? I read so.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 46:13

How did you?

George Stroumboulis - Host: 46:14

raise and how much?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 46:15

So I actually raised when I was in Miami. So you know, I started a career in San Francisco working for Bacardi and then my last executive role was I mentioned DeSerrano before, so that was my last executive role in the industry. I was the go-between between DeSerrano Global and Bacardi USA. So I also speak Italian, oh wow. And Bacardi was the importer of record for DeSerrano, so I was also the first dedicated like marketing manager, brand manager for DeSerrano in the US. It was, frankly, I started all the nuts and bolts for the brand focus groups.

46:58

Before I was working for DeSerrano, however, I was living in New York. I was literally scraping by because I didn't want to work for a corporate. I didn't want to work for a corporation because I really wanted to do mustica right, and it came to the point where I was like not making ends meet and I'm like shit. I got to get a job again and so I took this job with Ilva, the company that owns DeSerrano. That job relocated me down to Miami and I actually took my relocation and I paid a senior advisor named Tom Weiland, who was CEO of Jim Beam for 10 years, ceo of Allied Demac, which was a big multinational that owned Stoli, one of their big brands. He had been the senior advisor to LeBlancashasa, which was friends of mine, aviation Gin, which we know sold for Boku to Diageo.

47:57

So when I was first trying to raise money in New York and, like I said, I was getting my ass handed to me, my buddies that owned LeBlanc were like you need to get an advisory board, right? It was my first time hearing the term and they're like you should talk to our guy, right? And so I met with Tom and I'll remember we were like at Soho House in New York and he looked at me and he was like you remind me of the Patron founder. He's like you got it, I will help you. But that help didn't come, you know, for free, right, of course. And so I use my relocation to pay him his like initial consulting fee, which you know and I love Tom.

48:38

He's an absolute beast, he's an absolute shark and he's the best negotiator I've ever met in my life. This man is like you. Watch him in action. He's, he's amazing. However, working with him proved that my business plan was pretty tight, my budget was pretty tight, and so it was the vote of confidence that I needed, which was the old white man that had been in the business for so many years. That could actually give people a comfort level to be like okay, I'll write a check you know, it's okay that said, I Was working for DeSerano.

49:19

I had to put this on the shelf for a while because big brother was always watching. I'm in the Bacardi corporate office in Miami and I had a lot of work to do, you know. And so I kind of put this on the shelf and then I would say, two years in with that role, I had things kind of smooth sailing. I had to come in and, you know, up he's everything that was being done on DeSerano fire agencies, hire new agencies, you know, create efficiencies, hire and train brand ambassadors. So I did this whole thing, got that brand growing double digit phenomenal. I'm killing it. Italy loves me. And Then I came to the point where I was just like, if I don't get Cleo soft the ground, it is gonna be written on my tombstone that I tried to make musthika big, you know, because it was just like always in the back of my head and, by the grace of God, the Italians decided to leave Bacardi and start their own import company.

50:18

I wanted nothing to do with that because it was gonna be a whole nother you know upheaval starting over again, you know, and I actually slept on a friend's couch, bartended, catering bartending for a while and Decided I get a start to raise money for this things. Yeah, and my first $10,000 check was actually Not get emotional. Oh geez, come on was a girlfriend of mine here in.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 50:47

LA, come on. She believed in you.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 50:49

Yeah.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 50:51

Get out of here.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 50:52

Yeah, and I didn't even picture. That was the thing. I didn't even picture.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 50:55

She just like oh my god, what a good friend.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 50:59

She, just she, just, you know, was a witness to the whole story and she was just like, if I want to invest in this, and she was a media person, had bought some property, sold some property, so had a nest egg, sure, and at that point it was kind of like I have to do this, you know. And then I'm talking to another girlfriend of mine. She introduces me to a couple who, high net worth individuals. They owned cushy, owned a company that sold cushions for wheelchairs, that had a special Technology for the low back million a Swedish company bought, and so they have been.

51:38

You know the Neville and philanthropists, let's call it. They're in Chicago and my friend Katarina introduced me to them. I pitched them at a bar in Miami, next $50,000 check, and that's kind of how it happened.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 51:53

You know like it just was.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 51:56

I went from being super scared To put myself out there to raise money To having some really good momentum and I'm like I'm on a roll, you know, and that's kind of how it goes because you know this game as well, right Like it's it's it's a momentum game and it's also like Investors are kind of sheep. You know they're gonna follow on once the first money comes in. Then they're more comfortable to write that. You know what I mean.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 52:20

So I'm curious why did you get emotional about your friend writing that first check with it? It wasn't about the dollar amount. What was it?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 52:29

God, because it's like you know, this wasn't somebody who's super wealthy.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 52:34

Gotcha, you know what I mean.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 52:35

It's someone who literally had like a little nest egg from some smart investments that was willing to take a risk and be like I don't if I lose it, I don't care, like I believe in you, I know you're gonna, you're gonna do it right, wow. And so, yeah, I mean and frankly, most of my investors are that. You know, like sure, there's some high net worth individuals that invest in Excuse me, in Clio, yeah, but a lot of them are Greeks. There are a lot. I have a lot. I have a very diverse cap table Greeks, latinos, african Americans and women. It's awesome.

53:12

Really not a single VC yet Been approached by a VC recently. We'll see how that goes. I mean, I stopped, I raised, I've raised two point four and change all in since inception, which you know is not a lot of money, yeah, which is why I've been like super tight with cash flow management, super careful, yes, and you know some people may think like, oh, that's a lot of money. It goes so fast especially when we're talking about cogs.

53:43

Yeah, you know yeah cost of goods on Clio's are not cheap. This is not a cheap package and my production method Takes two months most must be has take a day to make Clio's. Takes two months to make six to eight weeks. How all of that costs money. I use a neutral grain spirit base. Other must be because use sugar beet. My neutral base is more expensive. Everything on Clio's is more expensive.

54:09

Which is why it drives me nuts when I get nickel and dimes from people like trying. You know, my margins are already really tight as it is, because I wanted to make this an affordable luxury, like in California. You can get Clio's now for. Would you buy it for 3399? Yeah, yeah, something around there. I want to say 99.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 54:30

Do they charge tax on this?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 54:31

Yes, yeah.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 54:32

I think it was $29, maybe $30 yeah, that's, that's.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 54:36

That's a little too low. I mean on the East Coast Wear it like 36 to 38, 99 the next?

George Stroumboulis - Host: 54:43

can you talk numbers like what if one person came in or one firm? What's the next round? Look like like what are you doing with that? Is it just the states nationally?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 54:51

So so a series a is going to be an eight to ten million dollar round okay and that will enable me to get about 20 people on the ground and and go aggressively into, you know, 4850 states, wow. So I sell in Greece, uk, turkey new market last year, turkey very promising just started selling in Australia, great. But the US is the most important market when it comes to.

55:24

Yeah, we're in Canada as well. Canada's tax system is so insane that Clio's is just really expensive in Canada, so it's not a market that I can like do a lot of damage in. Imagine that Clio's is more affordable in the US than it is in Greece.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 55:40

That's because of taxes. Yep, so well, in Canada has Government-controlled liquor stores in Ontario, correct? So you're selling through distribution there and then they know you've got to sell through.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 55:52

Right now we're just in the LCBO, which is the liquor-controlled board of Ontario which is a Greek CEO, by the way.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 55:57

Yeah, nick.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 55:58

Nanos and, frankly, I literally messaged him on LinkedIn and that's how I got Kleos through the in through there. Yeah, that's amazing, yeah.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 56:06

So then you get that next round. That's mostly like can you with more money, can you drive cost down, produce more, get better?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 56:15

Yes, but it's gonna be like a Lot of volume before I start to get some good price breaks, you know. And then, frankly, I mean I'll just be transparent. I'm always talking to glass companies, yep, because they're always soliciting frankly. So you know, you got to be able to pit one guy against another and kind of like part of the game you do it like that?

56:44

Yeah, I mean it's also risky because you don't want to be jumping producers all the time. China is not the funnest to deal with. Like Most of your big brands, their glass is made there is it? Yeah, and I mean you've got the big companies Saver Bruni, which French and Italian respectively, for lens, another big one. These are European companies, but a lot of them subcontract factories in China and China's switching their glass.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 57:10

So the government itself is pushing out a lot of glass to produce glass. It's a dirty process, manufacturing process. We do a lot of glass with our fixtures. Yeah, and every year, every other year, there's like significantly fewer and fewer suppliers because the the government's just it's a dirty process. Yeah yeah, but does that? Like you could never produce glass in Greece, like it just wouldn't make sense.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 57:34

So I tried and here's the you know. Here's the problem. So there was one last standing glass company in Greece called Yula. You know I used to make this a promari, so promari gave me the referral and when I was first starting out we're talking like 2016,. You know, first getting quotes on glass, yula would not take my quantities. They were like you're too small for us, right? So I literally said to them I don't care, I will pay more To do it in Greece and have it all made in Greece so that I can say this is a hundred percent Greek product. I will pay more for the glass Versus going to China. They didn't care.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 58:16

They didn't care.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 58:16

No, and then they subsequently got bought by a Portuguese company. So there's now no real sense? There's no real glass company left in Greece. I believe there's some smaller ones that do olive oil bottles, but not anyone that can supply for the quantities. So it's unfortunate and that's just the reality of what's happened to Greece in general with a lot of things.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 58:38

Yeah, and even this there's no bubbles or anything.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 58:44

Look, there's products made in China, okay, so there's a lot of great quality products coming out of China, but there's also a lot of bad factories. So you just got a Vat. Who you, who you're working with?

George Stroumboulis - Host: 58:58

I always tell us the clients when they're like, oh, you make your product in China. I'm like, yes, and you can buy a lot of crap in China, but we also make product that's in some of the best jewelry stores that are selling the most expensive juice. It doesn't matter, it's when you own your own factory or set up your own production and control the quality. It doesn't matter where it's made, right? Would I love to have all our lighting made in the USA or made in Canada, Absolutely, but there's no manufacturer that does that. You're importing the drivers, you're importing this.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 59:25

It's, it's, it's the unfortunate reality of what's happened in the United States. We don't manufacture anything anymore, absolutely.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 59:32

I had a retail client who in a meeting just to be an asshole anyways, he wasn't the nicest guy Where's your product made? I'm like Asia. It's like China. I'm like China, he goes and he just did one of these. I'm like and it was a large retailer, won't say the name, I go when. Where's your garments?

59:50

and then you can point 20 things in there made in China he goes China, I go this different China, I guess right, like, yeah, again, I'm not sitting here an advocate, but you got to do what makes sense. The product that's Carried in the Chinese product is Greek, right? So you just got to look at that. I got to pour myself another. This is fantastic. So anything else, I'm dealing with Greece. I know you grew up first generation Boston yeah, right, so both your parents were from there. My parents were immigrants, so they were immigrants. Yep, same here. So being reconnected with Greece, what? What were some of the things that you saw that you're just like oh, this is great, this is what I love. Being reconnected right through your last job and then what are some of the things that you're like doesn't make me proud to be Greek.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:00:38

So Look, when I started working from a duck saw, there was kind of. It was a time when all the big Strategics, the Pernos, the Bacartis, the Diageos of the world, were doing brand ambassadors. You know it was a thing for marketing. They wanted their brands to have a face. Typically these people had some sort of a bartending background and typically, if it was, you know, my friend Simon Ford worked on Plymouth gin, london dry gin. He's a Brit, right. So when the role with mettoxac came about, I remember I called my dad and he was like you have to get that job, if you know, like and I'm thinking to myself at the time like how cool that I can get to represent a Greek product totally in this business because I have been in the business and I'm like this is awesome.

01:01:31

I was so excited. It was, frankly, a grueling like five month interview process and I wanted this job so badly. I mean my follow. I wish I had my follow up letters and emails from that time. I mean I was gunning for that, for that job. And so when I got it and, like I said so, interestingly enough it also came at a time, you know, you grew up first generation. By the time I got to college, you know, I did Goya Sunday school. I was, I was in it, I was doing Greek dance.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:02:11

Being over the head with it.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:02:12

Yes, I was beaten over the head with our culture and you know, it was always kind of like Milan is the next thing they're talking in the church. You know someone saw you with a boy or whatever and it was just nonsense. Like I was a straight, a student, I was the first child, so I got it bad. I mean I all of it Okay. And by the time I got to college I literally was like I'm done.

01:02:41

Yeah, I want nothing to do with the Greek community. And starting to work for Metaxa was like this weird coming home right and I'm back in Greece and I hadn't been in Greece in 12 years and so that never mind that trip to Mekonos. Like I, you know, I bounced around Athens and the islands and it was just like an instant reigniting of the love affair with the old country, because it's something, especially when you're first generation and we went back in the summers when we were kids we would stay in the village with our grandparents. So when you have that experience, you know being Greek is something that, like it, beats in your heart.

01:03:26

You know what I'm saying, absolutely, and so being back there, the food, the drink, the ocean, the all of it, you know it just, it was like God. Why was I away for?

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:03:37

so long Do you?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:03:38

know what I mean, and so I then became the stereotypical, like Greek and proud. I'm now representing Metaxa around the United States, which is a big deal Dealing with the Greek community all around the United States, which was a whole experience in and of itself. Right, because we talked about this earlier Chicago Greeks, new York Greeks, boston Greeks, florida Greeks they're all a little different.

01:04:03

All different, you know, but we'll always all are bound by asking for a deal, right, like that's the common cash money deal Like that's the common Totally totally totally so yeah, you know, there was, there was that part of the experience and then respective to you know, Mastiha and I said this earlier you know the really sad thing was that realization of the fact that here we have this raw ingredient that's a PDO. You know the PDO is an EU term, so the European Union, once they came together, you know, they created like, call it, a program where there's an official designation for products. PDO means protected designation of origin ingredient, Right. So FETA has a PDO, Mastiha has a PDO, Cognac has a PDO, Right.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:04:59

So which means when you have that PDO, producers outside of that region or area cannot produce and use that term. Is that what it?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:05:06

technically, that's what it technically, that's what it means. Technically that's what it means. But we all know that Bulgaria and France export cheese that is called FETA here in the United States. Where that breakdown occurs, I don't really know, and it's something that the governments need to be a lot more diligent on. Because, hey, you want to sell your goat cheese that kind of tastes like FETA? Great, that's French goat cheese. Yeah, don't call it FETA. You know what I mean. So that's the thing with Mastija, and the very sad realization that I had is that the majority of Mastija sold in Greece is that artificial flavor and aroma. And I said to you earlier, we have this beautiful thing that only comes from this one island. It's so rare, it's so expensive. There's farmers that work very hard to cultivate these trees and create this thing that has value. The whole island I had one farmer that said to me Mastija in a lot of Tunisian, which means it is literally the fabric of the island is around Mastija and shipping. He also is known for shipping, by the way.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:06:22

And they're all in New York now too.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:06:29

So you have this thing, and it's the Greeks themselves that have destroyed the value of the product because they give it away for free. Yes, think about this for a minute. I'm creating a luxury brand from a raw ingredient that's super expensive and super rare, yet you go to Greece and then you get it for free. So if I'm an American tourist, I go to a restaurant, they give me some Mastija shots for free at the end of the meal. Do I then want to pay for it? I mean, it's one thing when the owner is giving you something special, right, but it's another thing when the entire magazine gets something you know what I mean, like you were saying the Grappa example.

01:07:07

Right, but the bigger problem there is the fact that now selling in the Greek market, the Greeks themselves will buy the cheap peddalitron I'm going to say the five liter, you know seven.

01:07:20

Oh, I get seven. I get a five liter for seven euros and it's like well, I'm not, I can't compete with that. No, my cost of goods is way higher than that. I can't compete with that. And I'm also making a quality product, respectful of the laws, respectful of the local people and what they do, you know, and also trying to elevate Greece in the process. You know what I mean Because I said you before, you know, france can take a piece of rubber, give it an appellation and sell it for a zillion dollars, because the French are geniuses at marketing.

01:07:56

That dates back to like Louis XIV France. Right yeah, he was literally the first marketing genius in France.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:08:04

Why, I don't know.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:08:05

And then, you have the Italian glass makers. You know why? Because Louis XIV had the first court of you know, these master chefs that created all the master sauces. He bought expensive Italian glass to create the Hall of Mirrors at the Versailles Palace, right? Like he was the first literal marketing genius that created luxury. And in Greece we have all these beautiful things. You know Icaria, 1600 indigenous botanicals and this honey, and we are. You know, it is the island where people forget to die. You know you've got Gios and Mastica. You've got Uzo not my favorite category but we have the best Anise in all of Europe growing in Lesbos, right?

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:08:53

So we have all these beautiful things Olive oil.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:08:56

Olive oil 60% of Italian olive oil is bottled Greek olive oil. Feta cheese Never mind feta cheese. Graviata from Naxal, all these other things that are produced from different regions in Greece that we could sell for tremendous, high amounts of money. You know, one could argue, do we have again supply for global? Well, hey then it's the law of supply and demand. You know what I mean. The price just goes up and it becomes something that's ultra, ultra premium if you want to have something coming from Greece.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:09:26

So we have all these special things, yet we don't know how to market and sell them properly you know, and that's a great way of putting it and then everyone in Greece thinks they're going to get rich quick by bringing out their own version of something right? So you have, Greeks are the we're notorious for this where, oh, I opened up a cafe right here. He's my friend. I'm going to go across the street and then there and there and there, and then I remember the yogurt, frozen yogurt craze. You remember in Greece, nothing, nothing, no shops, and then one opened up that summer. The next summer, yogurt shops were all like frozen yogurt. Greeks just have that thing right when you flood the market instead of working together. I love that there's a growers collective group right that controls it, but what would you do, you, if you were in a position of power? What would you do to just talking about this, not about anything else? What would you do for the mastica to protect?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:10:15

that. So the state general chemical laboratory, along with the Greek government, should be vetting every product that says mastica on it and if they are not buying from the Heels Mastica Growers Association, if they are using artificial flavor and aroma, they should not be allowed to call the product mastica Period. End of story.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:10:35

With penalties.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:10:38

With fines 100%. I mean, you know, the Greek government can do it. Okay, the Greek government has crippled Greek citizens. You know, because we swing the pendulum swung from one end to the other, nobody paying taxes to.

01:10:51

Now Taxman is looking at everybody On a $2 coffee, I mean I have my aunt and uncle make olive oil right and the amount of you know, elencho, that they get now from the government. They also have animals. They have to screw, they have to. Yeah, the amount of scrutiny they have to, you know, but I've been a delos. You know how many animals they have. They can't take their goat cheese and then go sell it to their neighbor anymore.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:11:19

Do you know what?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:11:19

I'm saying Because the tax man's got to get their money right, so we went from one extreme to another. So if they're going to do that to the average Greek citizen, then they should be able to do it to companies as well and protect these precious regions.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:11:35

Correct.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:11:36

Correct, because at the end of the day, it's about protecting these raw ingredients.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:11:41

Yes.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:11:41

You know, though, to me the worst thing that could happen would be that a big brand comes out and they're making artificial flavor and aroma. You know, my thing with and and, and you know this is the other thing that Greeks do, the arpahto right. Like oh yeah, we could make mastic a big like, make an artificial flavor and aroma, you know what?

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:12:03

I mean the Italians are doing with the olive oil. By the way, I mean you're saying 60% is Greek. Do you know a lot of the mafia?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:12:10

in Southern Africa as well.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:12:12

But they're importing vegetable oil food coloring. They're adding food coloring and aroma and they're selling it as extra virgin olive oil back to North. America yeah, so like every group has it. But if you're blatantly selling something, how do you not, you know, have this label and enforce it?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:12:29

Look, I'm trying to educate and that's the best I can do, but it's a heavy boulder to have on your shoulder.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:12:34

You know absolutely.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:12:36

But I, you know it, cleos, Effie, integrity ethics very important, so you know this could get bought tomorrow If Bacardi, you know there's no way that a large strategic is going to change this formula to a degree that it doesn't respect the laws you know right.

01:12:57

Maybe quantities of mastiha would change things like this. That's just reality. That happens with acquisitions. But the law is that mastiha has to be bottled in Greece legally to be called mastiha. So again, you know, if this comes to an exit, could someone could look at me and be like, oh you know, you're just looking to sell it and make it big and whatever the producer is going to win at the end of the day and you know what I mean, and that's that's a win-win is very important to me as well. You know what.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:13:29

I mean. So your passion, like last segment. I would love to talk about your passion, like why, if you sell this and you make tens of millions, whatever you make, you deserve it. You're passionate, you're bringing something unique to the market and you're insanely just talented with this right. Why can the rock do it? Or Kevin Hart and Sal, or George Clooney and Sal, and we're okay with that. We should be supporting young entrepreneurs who are doing their thing. Female-owned right, because this is a male-dominated industry. So this last segment just talk to me about just the challenges as a female-owned owner in the space creator and like just how you've been navigating, because it's not easy.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:14:11

Yeah, so I mean the biggest challenge is raising capital to present. 2% of VC funding goes to female-owned brands you know.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:14:19

So regardless In this category or in general, in general, In general, and it's even worse in alcohol beverage 2%.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:14:25

It's even worse in alcohol beverage. So that is a really glaring statistic and I always say, if you asked me 10 years ago if I was a feminist, I probably would have rolled my eyes. I am a girl's girl, but I'm also a guy's girl. I've always had a lot of guy friends. Like anyone watching this right now, I've definitely got masculine energy, so I'm not afraid or intimidated very easily. But raising money for Clios was a very humbling experience, to say the least, and also evidence of that glaring statistic. Right, not very easy to overcome, which is why Look, my seed round, which was 1.8 million, took me 15 months and I had guy friends that were like, oh yeah, I raised my seed at three months, six months, and I just was just feeling inferior a lot.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:15:25

You know you had a quality product offering right.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:15:28

Yeah, I mean it just, you know, and again I don't want it low like, oh whoa is me, I'm a woman brand owner it sucks for us out there. It kind of does, but that didn't keep me from keeping going and being persistent, you know, and so I just think persistence, has been a really important part of my journey. And then, like, the success is what speaks for the brand. You know, in terms of the markets, we've opened the distributors that we're with all of that. You know, I've laid a really good foundation and planted these seeds and I just want any investor that you know now we were approached by VC fund any investor to see look, what has been accomplished with such minimal resources by one individual.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:16:17

Yeah.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:16:18

And just water those seeds and see the plant grow Like it's. You know, that's it. That's all I can hope for in the future.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:16:26

Absolutely. And just last comment on that for me is like, look what you've done for the DeSeronos of the world, which is a global brand, and bringing it here and doing that, you had the resources to let you do what you needed to do. I hope you get the next round to take it to where I hope you have a successful exit. But until then, like, let's get these into more bars and people's homes, and you know I'm excited for you.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:16:49

It's going to happen. It's going to happen. The other funny thing about Greece is we definitely are a poor country, but we have a lot of wealth and a lot of wealthy people. Yes, you know, I could probably raise a series A alone from Greek investors.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:17:07

So so, let's get some eyeballs to this. Yeah, eight to 10 million.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:17:13

That could be eight people. It literally could be eight people, eight people. It could probably even be three people.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:17:18

Right, just to get it. I love it, I love it. Thank you so much for sitting down.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:17:24

Thank you.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:17:25

We got to have you on more often and just talk about stuff, because it's not easy, right? Like being motivated, we're going to talk, you know, on the next one, just self-motivation. Like how do you wake up every day? Like for me there's more downs than ups.

01:17:37

Yes, but those ups, keep you going. Yeah, it's not easy, yeah, and you're creating something totally new in a very saturated space. Right, and to be able to have that experience, to do that you should be so proud, so saturated space, but it's a product that completely cuts through the clutter.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:17:54

I mean there's not, I mean there's barely any mastihaa selling in the United States, right, you know, and people get really excited about this. I mean, good for the gut, low cow, low sugar, low alcohol, woman-owned, it's all the things. Yeah, you know what I mean. It's all the things people are looking for.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:18:16

Great bottle to give us gifts, right? So let's say that for Israel. Yeah, I mean, look, it's a very.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:18:21

One thing I will say that also like makes me really proud is when Americans say like, oh, yeah, that looks Greek. Yes, because my whole thing was I wanted this to have a very strong Greek brand identity, which was another interesting thing with my experience working at Metaxa. When I worked at Metaxa, we did a lot of like marketing exercises at our global brand conferences, which would be like okay, let's, do you know breakout groups? I'm with the Russian and the German. We're in a breakout group. They give us a task of like okay, create this. You know, ultra, uber, premium age, metaxa, what does the bottle look like? What do you call it? Et cetera, et cetera. Right, so we do these marketing exercises. And Greece, in terms of the brand team there, was always afraid to be to Greek. I found this very, very interesting. Huh, and think about this from like historic standpoint. Right, we have been self-governed for such a small period of time in terms of our country right.

01:19:22

We hate authority. Greeks are fiercely independent. So although there is a degree of Greek nationalism, there's also a degree of kind of like self-hatred, in a way, where if something like I said, this whole two Greek thing was kind of like what does that mean? Right you know where it's like the what is considered to be kitschy souvlaki opa saganaki fustaneles this kind of thing.

01:19:54

They want to stay away from it, Right. So that was another thing with me, with Cleo says how do I make this identifiably Greek but very modern and chic for a global consumer and there's great brands out there. Right now doing it Like New Greece, let's call it, is super exciting. Very exciting, you know like there's a brand that I love called Zeus and the Oni. That's a fashion brand.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:20:19

Okay.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:20:20

I love their brand because it is again. It is an identifiably Greek clothing line that veers away from kitsch.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:20:29

Yep.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:20:34

So you know that was kind of the goal. But I think we're in a place now where Greeks are proud again. I think the economic bust and that whole capital control era was a very depressing time for Greece as a country.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:20:54

You know Absolutely, and prepared them for COVID. Like they rolled into COVID, just depression.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:20:59

Yeah, and I mean it's just starting to come back, but there's some really fresh young energy in Greece. That's really exciting and I feel like Cleo's is kind of like part of that wave, you know.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:21:12

And that's who you need to latch on. So you trying to go there and get to the local taverna to be a that's not you know it's not going to happen. No, there's a great Canadian that just Constantine Tselebicos, great guy from Toronto, lives in Athens now and he's doing so many amazing things. He's opening up his own co-working spaces, starting like a gin brand and fashion brand, and just very dynamic. This is like just an example of people returning to Greece doing amazing things, and those are the people there's also.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:21:43

Greeks in Greece doing amazing things. I think Ergon is a super strong brand. The three cents boys you know had a nice exit. It's a Greek soda brand. Why I'm having trouble they rattling them off the top of my head, but there's a lot of I mean Greek hospitality, you know. You look at Costa Navarino, places like this that are becoming world-class resorts for the jet set.

01:22:05

Like we have that you know we can do that, and the brand of Greece itself is a strong brand, you know it is aspirational, it is luxury. But there's two sides to that coin, right where the old school Greek Americans and I hate to say this, but it's like our parents' generation what they brought to the United States was more of that old school thing, you know what I mean which is also special in its way when it's done right.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:22:37

Yeah, you know, so. But my challenge now is when I go to Greece. I'm there several times a year for work and then I go family vacation. To me, Greece is not going there and only staying at a Costa Navarino which again shout out great place. Yeah, like to go there and just stay at resorts and go to another expensive resort and you're paying a thousand euros a night, but the person working there is making 700 euros a month. Yeah, it doesn't sit well with me.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:23:05

I know I agree, right, like you go to.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:23:07

Kalamata. I want to go to Taverna and I don't want it to be so fancy and I want to be in flip flops where you know. Right now you have the mandarin orientals of the world. They're opening up and this is, you know, five star, ultra luxury resort, 4,000 euros a night to stay there, four night minimum.

01:23:23

That's great and that caters to a small clientele which is good that we can do that, but my fear in general is like Greece just becomes too, too much that way. Yeah, and your average Greek can't survive there, yeah, you know. So it's just, it's a balance, but yeah, I don't know, I just I don't like that. If I have to go there to just sit in resorts for two weeks, I could go to Arizona and stay in a resort.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:23:49

Yeah, no, it's definitely, definitely not my style. I mean, last summer I was there for about two months. I stayed in Hanya for two weeks at an like an Airbnb and it was. I mean, I love Crete. Yes, I can't speak highly enough about Crete. I love Crete. I love Icaria. I also went to Milos, I also went to Follega Dros. I can't afford to stay in those places. I went to Navarino for two days because they hooked me up and gave me a deal, because they carry Kleos.

01:24:18

Yes, but the experience, and I mean I love the place. It's absolutely stunning. But I could have been in the Hamptons. I couldn't tell the difference. That's what I'm saying so, it felt like that very American golf resort type vibe and I want to be with the locals Absolutely.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:24:35

Absolutely yeah, we have a rule I can't stay more than three nights in a resort like that, which is why Heos is super cool, by the way.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:24:41

Heos has no luxury resorts.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:24:44

Right, right, right Right.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:24:45

Barely anything there, Like I mean, Cadreis is the most luxury you can get and it's, you know, by comparison, not even close.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:24:53

Okay, I've never been, but you got to go All my New York home. I used to live in New York. It's like I get it, guys, you're from Heos. I get it Heos and what's the other? Navarro, most people are from there.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:25:05

In New York.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:25:05

New York they have a lot of.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:25:07

I don't know I mean honestly. I felt like I was surrounded by Jotas. It was like the Jotico Spiti. And yeah, I don't know, but I can tell you, being from Tripoli, chicago has a lot of Tripoli. Jotas, it's all Tripoli and then I just found out recently that Yorkubaro Panassi is also from Tripoli. But his wife's from Caribe Dina from you know that does all the concerts here, in California is also from Tripoli, oh yeah.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:25:32

No, it's a big yeah.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:25:34

Yeah.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:25:34

It's exciting. What's the best way for people to stay in contact with you?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:25:39

Follow on Instagram. It's at DrinkClios, so the word drink K-L-E-O-S. I still answer all those messages.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:25:48

Amazing.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:25:48

Yeah. So that's the best way to get in touch.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:25:51

And then last, and what about the Liza? It sells?

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:25:53

online for people that aren't in one of the 16 states that we distribute in by Clioscom. Super easy shipped of like 48 states.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:26:02

So you could ship cross-state lines and.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:26:05

Correct, I don't do this directly. It's illegal for us to sell direct to consumer old liquor laws. But I have a third party that runs a niche shop that tells all that. Yeah.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:26:13

Amazing. I'm so glad we were able to sit here and chat today. Me too this is awesome. And I'm not just saying it delicious. I'm already on my second cup here, so thank you so much Love it.

Effie Panagopoulos - Guest: 01:26:24

Cheers, you're awesome.

George Stroumboulis - Host: 01:26:25

Thanks for listening to this episode of Invigorate your Business with George Stroumboulis. Please hit the subscribe and like button and follow me on all the main podcast streaming channels. Also, please share your comments when you can. I appreciate your help in expanding this network to a worldwide audience. Until next time, stay invigorated.

CONTENTS OF THIS VIDEO

00:00:00 PODCAST WITH ALCOHOL BRAND FOUNDER EFFIE PANAGOPOULOS
00:01:20 FIRST GREEK WOMAN SPIRIT BRAND OWNER
00:03:30 BACARDI, METAXA BRAND AMBASSADOR
00:04:20 NAMMOS BAR IN MYKONOS DISCOVERED MASTIHA
00:06:00 STARTING A MASTIHA LIQUOR BRAND AND WHY
00:10:00 THE START OF KLEOS LUXURY SPIRIT FROM GREECE
00:11:00 HOW THE ALCOHOL INDUSTRY MEASURES SALES IN CASES SOLD
00:11:50 SKINNY GIRL MARGARITA ACQUISITION BETHANY FRANKEL
00:14:06 FIRST FEMALE GUEST FOR GEORGE ON HIS PODCAST
00:15:45 RAISING CAPITAL FROM WALL STREET AS A WOMAN
00:18:15 ONE-PERSON ENTREPRENEUR FOR KLEOS FOUNDER
00:19:05 STILL AT TASTINGS FOR GRASSROOTS BRAND GROWTH
00:21:30 MARKET RESEARCH AT THE LOCAL LIQUOR STORE
00:22:36 TASTING KLEOS MASTIHA LIQUOR FOR THE FIRST TIME
00:24:30 BEST COCKTAIL WITH KLEOS MASTIHA IS THE CLEOPATRA
00:26:45 HEALTH BENEFITS OS MASTIHA FROM THE SKINOS TREES
00:29:35 WORLD'S FIRST CHEWING GUM WAS MASTIHA
00:32:00 CHIOS IS THE WORLD'S PRODUCER OF MASTIHA
00:37:15 80% OF MASTIHA BRANDS ARE ATRIFICIAL FLAVOR AND AROMA
00:43:45 MASTIHA SHOP IN THE AIRPORT OWNED BY THE GROWERS
00:45:25 END GOAL FOR STARTING THIS LIQUOR COMPANY
00:50:35 1ST INVESTOR WAS FROM A FRIEND
00:55:15 SERIES A CAPITAL RAISING IN THE NEXT GOAL
00:57:05 GLASS PRODUCING COMPANIES FOR THE PACKAGING
01:00:00 MANUFACTURING IN CHINA AND THE STIGMA
01:04:00 BEING GREEK BEATS IN YOUR HEART
01:05:15 PDO DEFINED PROTECTED DESIGNATION OF ORIGIN
01:07:00 GREEKS GIVING AWAY A LUXURY INGREDIENT FOR FREE
01:08:30 LOUIS 14 OF FRANCE THE 1ST REAL MARKETING GENIUS
01:10:49 HOW WOULD YOU PROTECT THIS MASTIHA INGREDIENT?
01:12:40 THE OLIVE OIL SCAM WITH THE ITALIAN MAFIA
01:14:10 CHALLENGES AS A FEMALE FOUNDER AND OWNER
01:22:45 THE LUXURY ASPECT IN GREECE IS GROWING

HOW TO START YOUR OWN LIQUOR BRAND IN THE UNITED STATES

Starting your own liquor brand in the United States involves navigating a complex regulatory environment. Here's a general guide to help you get started, but keep in mind that it's crucial to consult with legal experts and regulatory authorities to ensure compliance with specific laws and regulations:

  1. Market Research:

    • Conduct thorough market research to understand the target audience, competition, and market trends.

  2. Business Plan:

    • Develop a comprehensive business plan outlining your brand positioning, target market, marketing strategy, and financial projections.

  3. Legal Structure:

    • Choose a legal structure for your business, such as a Limited Liability Company (LLC) or corporation.

    • Register your business with the appropriate state authorities.

  4. Trade Name and Trademarks:

    • Choose a unique and memorable trade name for your brand.

    • Consider registering trademarks to protect your brand identity.

  5. Obtain Necessary Licenses:

    • Apply for federal and state alcohol beverage licenses from the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) and state liquor control boards.

    • Obtain the required local licenses and permits.

  6. Label Approval:

    • Submit your label designs to the TTB for approval. Labels must comply with specific regulations regarding content and design.

  7. Production and Sourcing:

    • Source or produce your liquor. Be aware of the TTB regulations on production, including record-keeping and reporting.

  8. Distribution and Retail:

    • Determine your distribution strategy, whether you'll sell directly to consumers, through retailers, or via wholesalers.

    • Comply with state laws regarding distribution and sales.

  9. Tax Compliance:

    • Understand and comply with federal and state tax regulations related to alcohol production, distribution, and sales.

  10. Quality Control and Testing:

    • Implement quality control measures to ensure your product meets regulatory standards.

    • Perform required testing and maintain records of compliance.

  11. Marketing and Advertising:

    • Develop a marketing strategy, keeping in mind restrictions on alcohol advertising.

    • Comply with regulations on promotions and marketing materials.

  12. Environmental Compliance:

    • Ensure compliance with environmental regulations, especially if your production process involves hazardous materials.

  13. Insurance:

    • Obtain appropriate insurance coverage for your business, including product liability insurance.

  14. Social Responsibility:

    • Consider implementing responsible drinking and social responsibility practices.

    • Be aware of and adhere to laws regarding the promotion of responsible drinking.

  15. Record-Keeping and Reporting:

    • Maintain accurate records of production, distribution, and sales.

    • Submit required reports to regulatory authorities.

It's crucial to engage legal professionals, including attorneys with expertise in alcohol beverage law, to guide you through the licensing process and ensure compliance with all applicable regulations. The TTB website and state liquor control boards are valuable resources for detailed information on alcohol regulations and licensing requirements.

WHAT IS MASTIHA, WHAT PRODUCTS CAN YOU MAKE WITH IT AND WHY IS THIS A SPECIAL PRODUCT

Mastiha, also spelled mastic, is a unique and aromatic resin obtained from the bark of the mastic tree (Pistacia lentiscus). The mastic tree is native to the Mediterranean region, particularly the Greek island of Chios. Mastiha has been used for centuries for various purposes, and it has both culinary and medicinal applications. Here are some key aspects of mastiha:

  1. Flavor and Aroma:

    • Mastiha has a distinctive flavor and aroma, often described as resinous, slightly sweet, and pine-like.

  2. Culinary Uses:

    • Chewing Gum: One of the traditional uses of mastiha is as a natural chewing gum. The resin is chewed to release its flavor and promote oral health.

    • Cooking: Mastiha is used in Mediterranean cuisine, particularly in Greek and Turkish dishes. It is used to flavor desserts, beverages, and savory dishes.

  3. Beverages:

    • Liqueurs: Mastiha is a key ingredient in producing traditional Greek liqueurs such as Mastiha liqueur. This sweet and aromatic liqueur is often enjoyed as a digestif.

  4. Desserts:

    • Pastries and Sweets: Mastiha is commonly used to flavor various desserts, including cookies, cakes, ice cream, and puddings.

  5. Medicinal Uses:

    • Mastiha has been traditionally used for its potential medicinal properties, including its antimicrobial and anti-inflammatory effects.

    • It has been used in traditional medicine to treat digestive issues and promote oral health.

  6. Cosmetics:

    • Mastiha oil and extract are sometimes used in cosmetics and skincare products due to their aromatic properties and potential skin benefits.

  7. Chios Mastiha PDO:

    • The Chios Mastiha has received Protected Designation of Origin (PDO) status from the European Union, recognizing its unique origin and characteristics. This designation ensures that products labeled as Chios Mastiha meet specific quality standards.

  8. Cultural and Historical Significance:

    • Mastiha has a long history and cultural significance in the Mediterranean region, particularly on the island of Chios. It is often associated with traditional customs and practices.

The uniqueness of mastiha lies in its specific geographic origin, distinctive flavor profile, and cultural heritage. The harvesting and processing of mastiha are labor-intensive, contributing to its value and special status as a regional product. It is sought after not only for its culinary applications but also for its historical and cultural significance in the Mediterranean.

HOW MANY WOMEN ARE OWNERS OF ALCOHOL & SPIRITS BUSINESSES

There has been a growing trend in recent years towards increased representation of women in the alcohol and spirits industry. Many women are taking on leadership roles, starting their own brands, and making significant contributions to the industry. Women-owned distilleries, wineries, and breweries have gained recognition for their unique products and innovative approaches.

MORE ABOUT EFFIE

In the realm of global entrepreneurship, there's a spirited tale that's pouring inspiration into the hearts of many, especially those intrigued by the spirits industry. Effie Panagopoulos, a name now synonymous with trailblazing and resilience, shares her extraordinary journey as the first Greek woman to craft a spirit brand that's transcending borders and palates. In the podcast episode titled "Effie Panagopoulos: The Journey of the First Greek Woman to Pioneer a Global Spirits Brand," we are invited to sip on the details of her venture, which is steeped in cultural heritage and flavored with the essence of entrepreneurship.

The conversation with Effie begins in Boston, where her roots are as deep as her passion for the spirits industry. With an impressive background that spans across big names like Bacardi, Effie brings forth a wealth of knowledge to the table. The discussion delves into the intricacies of making the shift from a secure corporate world to the unpredictable waves of entrepreneurship. Her brand, Kleos, is not just a product; it's a narrative, a testament to Effie's grit and her profound connection to her Greek heritage.

Effie's journey through the creation of Kleos is one that involves not just the crafting of a Mastiha-based spirit, but also the weaving of tradition into a tapestry of luxury and innovation. She unveils the painstaking art behind her brand's exquisite bottle design and the deep-rooted legacy of Greek Mastiha. As listeners, we're transported into a realm where every detail, from the spinning caps to the legacy of Greek Mastiha, is thoughtfully curated to reflect both history and modernity.

The dialogue then flows like the finest of spirits into the more pragmatic aspects of her entrepreneurial voyage. Effie discusses the challenges she faced in securing investments and expanding her brand nationally. She doesn't shy away from acknowledging the systemic barriers that often stand tall against female entrepreneurs, especially in an industry that's predominantly male-dominated. Effie's insights into marketing Greek products provide an educational contour to the conversation, offering a peek into the alchemy involved in creating a premium brand from a humble beginning.

In an industry saturated with choices, Effie's narrative stands out as a beacon of innovation and authenticity. Her brand's story is not only about breaking through systemic barriers but also about the power of staying true to one's cultural identity. It's a narrative that's both intoxicating and enlightening, encouraging listeners to consider the impact of heritage in the business landscape.

As we follow Effie's journey, we are reminded of the importance of resilience. Despite the headwinds of industry dynamics, her brand has managed to carve out a space for itself in the global market. Effie's successes serve as a toast to all female entrepreneurs who dare to dream and act upon their visions with unyielding determination.

To cap off the episode, Effie shares her experiences with fundraising, the intricacies of producing a high-quality product, and her plans for national expansion. Each word she speaks is imbued with the spirit of an entrepreneur who has navigated the treacherous waters of the spirits industry with a clear vision and a steadfast heart.

This podcast episode not only offers an in-depth look into the world of a spirited entrepreneur but also serves as a motivational elixir for those looking to distill their dreams into reality. Effie Panagopoulos's journey is more than just about creating a successful brand; it's a narrative that encourages us to blend tradition with ambition and to savor the flavors of innovation that define our paths.

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